tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post1570731889434683724..comments2024-03-26T05:15:39.663-07:00Comments on Equestrian Ink: Training a Confident HorseJami Davenporthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-23243256059756899072011-09-04T18:29:28.830-07:002011-09-04T18:29:28.830-07:00Laura--teaching to ground-tie takes a lot of consi...Laura--teaching to ground-tie takes a lot of consistent practice. You end up saying "whoa" a lot. Hopefully not while chasing a fleeing horse!<br /><br />Grin. Neither Mocha nor Sparkle did that to me. But yeah, I practice the skill pretty regularly.joycemochahttp://joycemocha.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-8001643811224088662011-09-04T07:32:32.651-07:002011-09-04T07:32:32.651-07:00joycemocha--I admire horses that ground tie reliab...joycemocha--I admire horses that ground tie reliably, though I have never trained one to do it. But what a useful thing for a horse to know.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-27619844002791539752011-09-03T19:02:00.212-07:002011-09-03T19:02:00.212-07:00And now, after reading the comments...one thing I ...And now, after reading the comments...one thing I wanted to add is that the best thing that happened for my first little pony is that he had to learn how to live in a tie stall at a young age. He was able to see other horses next to him but he learned a lot of patience that way.<br /><br />I move beyond training to tie to ground tying. I've always taught it, I guess. I remember it most with the big mare I owned in high school--no place to tie her up by the tack room in our garage, so she had to stand reliably. I started with holding the lead rope, but that grew old really fast. So by bits and pieces I taught her to ground-tie.<br /><br />Mocha ground-ties, and I work on it consistently. When we work with poles or cones in the arena, it's nice to be able to park the horse and do what is needed to adjust poles or whatever obstacle we're working with. Now we're working on her standing quietly while untacked in the arena, and not moving off until verbally released.<br /><br />Yeah, I'm into that kind of training stuff. It's helpful to have a horse trained to cooperate with you in the little things....joycemochahttp://joycemocha.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-58669530880736895322011-09-03T18:50:50.567-07:002011-09-03T18:50:50.567-07:00I like this training choice, and it's one that...I like this training choice, and it's one that I realize I kind of sort of use. Mocha likes doing intricate pattern work, and she sees it as a job. Especially if cones or poles are involved.<br /><br />I find it easier for a horse to understand what you're asking them to do in more complex movements if they have visual cues or a job-related cue to follow. So yeah...<br /><br />And my trainer uses the patience post pretty consistently. Mocha spent her youth at the patience post. So did several other horses that started out in the barn. There's been a few times when Mocha and I have had to do our work around impatient horses in training, just puttin' in their time....joycemochahttp://joycemocha.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-6613633110804753652011-09-02T12:37:16.535-07:002011-09-02T12:37:16.535-07:00dunslidin--I use ropes tied to very solid overhang...dunslidin--I use ropes tied to very solid overhanging oak tree branches. Same principle. Horses don't pull back hard (usually) if tied to a rope that goes up to a point above their heads. I use heavy "bombproof" clips and climbing rope. Works good for me. I definitely would try highlines if I didn't have the oak tree ties. We always tied our horses on high lines when horsepacking and it worked well.<br /><br />Minus Pride--Thank you. I'm glad it was helpful. Maybe I'll do a longer post sometime on safe ways to do the tying. There are risks of hurting a horse if you tie to fences...etc. And some horses who are very confirmed in pulling back until something breaks should not be tied solid.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-48939210370478538942011-09-02T12:16:47.720-07:002011-09-02T12:16:47.720-07:00I'm riding with Buck Brannaman next week and w...I'm riding with Buck Brannaman next week and while looking for a clinic review I saw an interesting comment that using a hi-line (what we did with our gelding) is the safest because if they pull back hard it lifts their front feet which they don't like and they won't pull hard enough to hurt themselves. I remember Bryan Neubert saying the same thing. Maybe that is why it worked so well on our gelding.dunslidinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752870701244760538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-53478342057530677162011-09-02T10:15:26.997-07:002011-09-02T10:15:26.997-07:00Thanks for your advice Laura, I just got the chanc...Thanks for your advice Laura, I just got the chance to get back on here.<br />I like your thoughts. She mainly keeps her head about her. My boyfriend's gelding gets worked up, so I think we will try that with him.Minus Pridehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554342160024959549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-54305857877176432182011-09-02T08:42:08.452-07:002011-09-02T08:42:08.452-07:00dunslidin--Thank you so much for that comment. I c...dunslidin--Thank you so much for that comment. I could not have said it better (and didn't). That is exactly the point. Tying is a very humane way to work with a horse that has issues, and the sort of reliable horse that tying can help create has a MUCH better chance at a happy life. That is exactly the point. Your examples are perfect. I couldn't agree more.<br /><br />And lets not forget--tying is a way to work with a horse that is safe for the human, too--and sometimes that is the bottom line.<br /><br />I dearly love my reliable riding horses (who have been tied a great deal in their lives and tie perfectly). I will darn sure retire them when their working life is done and do my best for them. And this would not have happened for either horse if they hadn't been such solid-minded, reliable riding horses. Tying is a very good method to help a horse become solid-minded, and becoming a solid-minded, reliable riding horse is absolutely a good thing for the horse (and the owner).Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-77839811572188313952011-09-02T08:31:31.887-07:002011-09-02T08:31:31.887-07:00Funny how one person sees cruelty and another sees...Funny how one person sees cruelty and another sees tying up just a easy and calm training tool. My trainer will get off a woundup mare and calmly tell her to have a time out (rather than spurring and jerking) and just tie her in her stall, work another horse then get her out and she is always calm and ready to work. We bought a horse that pulled and flipped out so my husband made up a secure tie in our corral with an innertube and he tied him every day for 3 or 4 hours for 3 weeks, turned the other horses out and let him figure out what behavior got him released, his alternative was to be sold at auction and not have the wonderful life he has now. He is now our pocket puppy and can be tied for hours with no silliness or danger to us or the other horses or himself. I would rather do something like this than let a horse be a hazard at a show or trail ride or at my own house. Most of the natural horsemanship oldies do this with their 2 year olds, tie up 8 or 9 horses to something safe and secure, take one at a time to work them and then put them back when they are done. Bryant Neubert (one of the best young horse starters) says the first few days might be a little wild but by the time they have 30 days on them they are ready to go anywhere and be tied and ridden. If you tie high and have plenty of room between horses they can move around probably more than mind do in their stalls. My trainer uses tie stalls on difficult horses, he says they learn to be touched all over and that they become respectful and unafraid of other horses and people touching them. It just becomes their life and they are not claustrophic once he gets them to a show. Oh well, different strokes for different folks, my horses have a job everyday. Take my fat body wherever I want to go (in the arena or trail) and be respectful and easy.dunslidinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15752870701244760538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-66499918226215122962011-09-02T08:02:44.431-07:002011-09-02T08:02:44.431-07:00Thank you Lynn and Once Upon. That's a really ...Thank you Lynn and Once Upon. That's a really good point about having a "job" helping to keep the rider confident as well. I never thought of it that way but it makes great sense.<br /><br />I'm always happy to share stuff that's worked for me--glad you found it helpfulLaura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-76612207441341414742011-09-01T17:49:03.445-07:002011-09-01T17:49:03.445-07:00Great post; great advice. I find it helps me just...Great post; great advice. I find it helps me just as much to have a job to do. Otherwise, I get worried and transmit that worry to my horse and then we both lose our confidence. We're a work in progress.Once Upon an Equinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807098276875052982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-53104413759030685382011-09-01T15:43:36.859-07:002011-09-01T15:43:36.859-07:00Great post Laura! When I was looking for my own tr...Great post Laura! When I was looking for my own trail horse, I came across many people who didn't tie their horses at all!! I guess the use of cross ties has eliminated this from many barns. But if you show, what do you do then, stand with your horse next to you all day?? And how do you use the porta-potty then :D<br /><br />All my horses have to stand tied, no exceptions. I don't have a barn, I have a run in. So I'm out doors for everything, from grooming to tacking up to training. They have to be able to wait their turn quietly and with no attitude. <br /><br />And they all do it. Usually they fall asleep at some point, even while grooming, so I'm constantly warning my kids to let the horse know where they are so they don't startle them!! Even then they will raise their heads and go back to "dozing". <br /><br />I love your second point about having a plan. I'm trying to reinforce this with my 12 year old son. He often complains about being bored while riding in the paddock. I encourage him to have something in mind to do. We have poles and a bridge and different trail type obstacles in there so we are always re-arranging so the horses have something new to try. <br /><br />I'm going to use that even as we trail ride, to help our herd bound grandmother to get over trying to mother/protect the pony while making sure no other horse gets in front of her, so she can still be the most aware so that any horse eating monsters won't get them. Well, maybe not her and the pony, my other mare she is not too concerned about, ha! <br /><br />Again great advice, can't wait to hear what more golden nuggets you have to add!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-82114006672194598192011-09-01T13:12:39.144-07:002011-09-01T13:12:39.144-07:00Aarene--I find it fascinating that so many people ...Aarene--I find it fascinating that so many people have used the "fake work" trick without even thinking about it...and found it effective. I stumbled upon it from riding/observing ranch horses--who are never ridden other than to get a job done. It was a real teaching to me how calm and confident they mostly were--despite being, in many cases, very ill-broke. And I sincerely hope my life will never depend on my horse climbing onto a pedestal, cause I'm not sure he'd do it--though I know he wouldn't panic trying (!). But I do see your point. Thanks!Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-15881420561786495742011-09-01T13:02:56.345-07:002011-09-01T13:02:56.345-07:00Great post, Laura, thanks. I have inadvertently u...Great post, Laura, thanks. I have inadvertently used the "fake work" trick on my horses for years, mentally telling them, "yes, yes, you are terrified of that rock HOWEVER we need to move on because I need to photograph something on the other side of this mountain before the light changes..." <br /><br />I also teach stupid tricks (especially when the weather is bad and we can't get out to do REAL work) to help the horse engage her brain AND to give her practice in doing stuff that she believes is senseless. And who knows? Someday our lives may depend on her ability to climb up on a pedestal.AareneXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18072169739345465380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-68270438169351419422011-09-01T07:52:37.248-07:002011-09-01T07:52:37.248-07:00Thanks Shanster--I just read on Kate's blog fr...Thanks Shanster--I just read on Kate's blog from someone who thinks that tying all day is cruel, and I would like to say that those who have not used this method to create calm in a green horse may be unaware of the benefits. Those of us who have used it can attest that it is a very benign way to teach a horse patience and it is often the MOST humane way to work with a difficult horse who might otherwise endanger the rider--or cause him her to become so frustrated that the riding is an endless, unpleasant struggle. Not fun for either horse or human. No, you don't have to tie all day. The ranch horses were tied all day because we needed them to be available to do chores. But tying for a good long time--say two to four hours, is the only way to get much benefit from this method. Half an hour won't work. It merely frustrates the horse to no good end.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-2952725158909025522011-09-01T07:33:46.228-07:002011-09-01T07:33:46.228-07:00I was taking Rosso with me when I cleaned stalls a...I was taking Rosso with me when I cleaned stalls and had lessons on Sera... he just had to stand there... and he became really good at just standing there and not fretting or worrying or flinging back and forth calling... when he was at the cowboy trainer, he spent his days tied up and tacked up til it was his turn.... I could definately see the benefits of that tool!!<br /><br /><br />and having a "job" to do absolutely makes sense... I can see how it would keep the focus without nit picking. Yes, think the mind set makes ALL the difference and it is subtle and yet it seems most anything worthwhile when training animals is pretty subtle... attitude and thought and how our bodies respond is pretty amazing.<br /><br />Good post! Thank-you!Shansterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04397551985965117012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-4376385754337773562011-09-01T07:33:18.114-07:002011-09-01T07:33:18.114-07:00Funder--Yes, I totally agree that you gave Dixie a...Funder--Yes, I totally agree that you gave Dixie a job and that caused her to become confident.<br /><br />Francesca--Tying all day is something that can help a green horse become solid. I don't believe either Kwint or Qrac were all that green when you got them, so there is absolutely no need to do that with them. But yes, the sort of "adversity" that tying all day represents can be very helpful to getting a horse "solid-minded". It may not be something we think about, but most horses don't get reliable without going through a little adversity--when we buy a broke horse we often forget that the adversity was simply dealt out by someone else--and we are reaping the benefits. To be quite frank, the tying all day represents a very benign form of administering "adversity". I don't do this with broke horses (myself)--its done for a reason and is part of the training process.<br /><br />Breathe--Yes, what are the blue bag games?<br /><br />Voyager--Yes, I would not tie a horse solid that was known to have the habit of pulling back hard. Something will get broken--and often its the horse. However, good "tied up" time when a horse is green can often prevent a horse from ever pulling back. My horses Sunny and Henry can be tied for as long as you want--they don't wiggle, much less pull back or paw. They both came from a ranch background, and spent, I'm sure, many hours tied.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-14182036020791546162011-09-01T06:08:01.168-07:002011-09-01T06:08:01.168-07:00This is a great post and reminds me of what I need...This is a great post and reminds me of what I need to do. I am sure my horses could use some of that tying up training, if not for hours then at least daily. I especially need to tie up Yalla! and Scout more often. Annie is a puller so I dare not tie her up. She will sit back over and over until "something" breaks. She almost always ends up badly injured too. I think that's why I neglect to do it with the others.<br /><br />I often ride focussed on specific tasks in the arena. Go to that post, turn 90 degrees, walk forward 300 yards, stop, back up, etc. It keeps the horse focussed on me more than what is happening around them. I like the idea of going out to "check fence" too. <br /><br />Breathe- what are the "blue bags games?"Fantastyk Voyagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15065772565014490544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-85357761310254367742011-09-01T04:24:59.071-07:002011-09-01T04:24:59.071-07:00It's funny, I started the "blue bag games...It's funny, I started the "blue bag games" to give us a job to do. I need to move that out to the trail next. The best days we have are blue bag days.<br /><br />Because it's a job. A silly one, but still a job...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104422629934443842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-31849326582546191272011-09-01T01:26:32.901-07:002011-09-01T01:26:32.901-07:00Hmmm...not sure about the tying up all day thing! ...Hmmm...not sure about the tying up all day thing! I reminds me of sad horses in the Camargue (south of France) waiting for tourists. I couldn't do that. I can see how a horse needs to learn to stand quietly while tied, and maybe I've been lucky, but none of my horses have ever had a problem with that. I get that the tying up for long periods of time teaches them more than just standing quietly. But still...<br /><br />I like the "having a job to do" idea, and although I've never thought about it quite this way, I realize I also work like this, even if I've never done it consciously, and definitely not in the checking the fence/herding cows Western riding sense. Recently, I've fiound that props are very helpful when I'm riding Qrac, if only for giving me a marker to focus on. Our arena is huge and oval shaped and has no letters, and I've found that just a couple of poles on the ground help me ride Qrac more precisely. It's hard to ride a circle on a relatively green horse without any point of reference, and the markers help him focus too. So, during one session, our job might be to ride a series of good circles, without drifting all over the place. <br /><br />I'll keep the "job to do" analogy in mind as I'm sure it will help in all sorts of circumstances. Thanks, Laura!Francesca Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18201599087106798500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-6386928342732517902011-08-31T20:47:27.731-07:002011-08-31T20:47:27.731-07:00You know, I think that is what I did with Dixie. ...You know, I think that is what I did with Dixie. I took her out for rides almost daily in early 2010, and our job was to get down the trail. She was awful. Spinning, bolting, freezing in place (usually hypnotized by a deadly rock). Sometimes I did get off and lead her but mainly I just kept her moving down the trail because by god we were going to get down that trail that day. She has become quite confident and steady (for me, at least - no one else has ridden her in years). I love the way you articulated "having a job." Good post!Funderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358687366401205336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-47562138828050447752011-08-31T16:28:21.643-07:002011-08-31T16:28:21.643-07:00maybe one day i can ride with the cattle, I am not...maybe one day i can ride with the cattle, I am not at that point yet! I did go to the barn today with a job for Shyloh. I tacked her up and lunged her and got a much better response than previous times!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02168070368360018750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-73642530062881948592011-08-31T13:03:45.624-07:002011-08-31T13:03:45.624-07:00Allison--It never hurts to ask--though people with...Allison--It never hurts to ask--though people with cattle can be a bit touchy when it comes to working them with a horse. If you do get permission, be careful not to do anything that would cause the cattle to get excited and potentially run through a fence--owners hate that.<br /><br />When I worked cattle on the commercial ranch, I was almost always doing something that needed doing--moving a group from field to field, or just doing a count to see that they were all there...etc. Of course, when I was training cutting horses and cowhorses, we worked cattle to train the horse--which is a completely different deal.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-49969598432084573112011-08-31T12:58:33.080-07:002011-08-31T12:58:33.080-07:00Thank you for this post! I am working on confidenc...Thank you for this post! I am working on confidence issues with my horse right now! She ties great and is patient, but I think getting a saddle on her and giving her a job to do each time is an excellent idea. I plan on trying it when I go out to the barn in a little bit. She does have cows right next to her paddock. . .I wonder if their owners would let me use them, lol!<br /><br />www.adventureswithahorse.blogspot.comAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02168070368360018750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-32447182504054391252011-08-31T12:22:09.484-07:002011-08-31T12:22:09.484-07:00Minus Pride--I would say that's pretty normal....Minus Pride--I would say that's pretty normal. Most horses get a little worked up when horses gallop up to them. If your horse stays under control and just dances a little, I'd ignore it and focus on the task at hand, whether that be arena figures or getting on down the trail. If she gets too excited and you feel she's not under control, I'd do what it takes to get her attention, whether some exercises (serpentines, circles), or doubling her, whatever it takes to get her attention back on you. Then I'd carry on. I don't blame a horse for showing a little excitement under those circumstances. Its natural. I just expect/demand they keep their main focus on me and the job at hand.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.com