tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post2218182856069331139..comments2024-03-26T05:15:39.663-07:00Comments on Equestrian Ink: When?Jami Davenporthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-9329541653712965392011-09-27T08:38:04.937-07:002011-09-27T08:38:04.937-07:00Thanks Shanster and Once Upon. I did come to a sor...Thanks Shanster and Once Upon. I did come to a sort of conclusion. I upped Et's rations a little, and so far he is cleaning the extra up. And I moved Rebby into the one corral on the property so he can eat free choice hay and some equine senior delight, too. Tomorrow I will give each of them an extra worming--all the horses were wormed less than a month ago. It's a temporary sort of fix--Reb can't live in the corral all winter--it'll get too muddy. But at least for the moment, everyone's needs are being addressed. And Et still looks quite bright-eyed.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-79057960455023703122011-09-27T07:29:46.668-07:002011-09-27T07:29:46.668-07:00No advice here, but just want to wish you well in ...No advice here, but just want to wish you well in your decisions. It sounds like you are very in tune to ET and have his best interest at heart. He's very lucky to have found a good retirement home with you.Once Upon an Equinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08807098276875052982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-26370742139604296602011-09-26T10:45:29.436-07:002011-09-26T10:45:29.436-07:00I'm sorry Laura - these things are never easy ...I'm sorry Laura - these things are never easy and only a decision you will feel comfortable making. The 3 we've put down clearly needed to be put down and I didn't have any guesswork to do - doesn't make it any less sad but I suppose it does make it a little easier.<br /><br />I know you'll do what is best for ET and what a lucky horse he is to have such a champion for him in you.Shansterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04397551985965117012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-53089530355243314442011-09-22T14:16:26.504-07:002011-09-22T14:16:26.504-07:00Thanks Jackie and Mrs Mom--I appreciate the suppor...Thanks Jackie and Mrs Mom--I appreciate the support and suggestions. And Mrs Mom--I so wish you to be right. I would love to have the old horse pass like this--but so far this hasn't happened for me.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-71039723471223280822011-09-22T12:00:28.069-07:002011-09-22T12:00:28.069-07:00Laura, Et has lived his life on his own terms. Ste...Laura, Et has lived his life on his own terms. Steady, happy to work, happy in retirement. Reliable. When the time comes, I am leaning towards thinking he will tell you on his own terms too. It would not surprise me if you write one day and say, "We went out to feed this morning, and there by his feeder looking calm and peaceful was ET, having passed away sometime during the night."<br /><br />You "asked" and he said, No, not now. Maybe soon- but not now. He'll let you know. <br /><br />Breathe deep. The doldrums are affecting many of us in many ways. But know in your heart ET is in good hands, and you'll KNOW when it is time with him.Mrs. Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269132012512166439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-23156375019738356152011-09-22T09:12:16.679-07:002011-09-22T09:12:16.679-07:00Laura...to get his weight up try adding soy oil to...Laura...to get his weight up try adding soy oil to his feed. My rescue mini was not gaining weight...even on enough senior feed for a big horse, and someone suggested Cocasoya - and in one week I saw a difference. He's now fat and sassy and I'm going to be cutting him back. You don't need the Cocasoya - you can just use soy oil (I found that cheap by me) and just see if that helps him put on weight. If not, then maybe that will help with your decision process.<br /><br />Good luck!<br /><br />JackieHorsesAndTurboshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03607758320356759231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-87397150130926724332011-09-22T08:06:42.925-07:002011-09-22T08:06:42.925-07:00Leslie--That is exactly the sort of thing I DON...Leslie--That is exactly the sort of thing I DON'T want to happen to ET. We feed every day around 7:30 AM, and Wally and I are very clear that if on any day ET is not right there, bright and eager to eat (which he is every morning) he'll be put down that day. As fast as we can get the vet out there. Given his age and overall slow decline, any sort of "offness" is going to be our cue. I would also choose to put ET down if I saw him moving as if he hurt, or having any sort of difficulty getting up and down. For me, those would all be signs it was time. So far, none of that is happening, but we are watchful.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-48760092415950642832011-09-22T07:45:21.339-07:002011-09-22T07:45:21.339-07:00Definitely a tough one, Laura. I have a similar si...Definitely a tough one, Laura. I have a similar situation with my cat right now. I know, a cat is small compared to dealing with our horses, but doesn't mean we take it any less hard. <br /><br />Buddy, was a rescue.Short story, we fed and nursed him from a tiny handful, closed matted eyes, runt of the kittens in the box my son found.We didn't think he would survive to a thriving adult. He's nine now. He developed asthma over a year ago. He's been getting a monthly steroid injection. However, it's looking like even that isn't helping. The vet suggested a product similar to what people use, an inhaler type of device, but Hubby and I decided we might be able to get it on Buddy once, without a fight, and that would be it. Too much of a struggle for the cat and we didn't want to put him through it. The other option was the monthly steroid, but it would only prolong the inevitable.I decided to just let Buddy live in his own little world as long as possible. He has coughing spasms and wheezes but he still eats, drinks, and wants to go outside on the deck every day. As long as he seems comfortable, for the most part, I'm going to go with it that way.He may go to sleep and not wake up, like our twenty one year old cat did a few years back. But if he does need help, I'll take him to the vet to be put down.<br /><br />A horse. Oh my goodness,I haven't had to deal with my own yet, but if you have them long enough, the time will come. <br /><br />I honestly don't think there's a right or wrong for you. Either way, ET has had a good life with you these last years. <br /><br />Our neighbor's horse recently died.Red was a BLM horse they'd adopted way back in the early 80's, so he was somewhere close to thirty.Hubby returned home one morning, because he forgot something,and said Red was laying out in the field,described the location. I'd been saying for a long time that Red wasn't looking too good. I'd watched him walk in the field a few times over the summer, and he was very stiff legged, very slow. I saw Red the two times I went in and out of our road that day. He was in the semi laying position when I saw him,never moved over a two hour period which meant he'd been there since at least 7:30am that morning, and I saw him the last time at 2pm.I have to believe he got down and couldn't get back up. It had been raining and chilly all day. I'd told Hubby to tell them, since the guy and his wife work at the same facility.Come to find out they'd known Red was going down and had already prepared a place. But,I thought it wasn't right for Red to just lay out in the rain all day if they knew what was going on. I don't know the whole story, so I'm not judging them, but I believe they should have had Red put down before he ended up in the field, unable to get up on a chilly rainy day, which basically is what happened from what Hubby gathered after talking to the owner.<br /><br />You look after your horses enough,Laura,so that wouldn't happen to ET. I think you should just go with what you feel and you'll be at peace.Lesliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00224646742863478548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-39248007346699851742011-09-21T13:21:16.690-07:002011-09-21T13:21:16.690-07:00jenj--The feed we use has beet pulp in it--among o...jenj--The feed we use has beet pulp in it--among other things. Its a complete feed--and its very palatable. As I say, it has worked wonders on all old horses I've seen. It is quite expensive, but my friend Wally can get it at wholesale price, which helps. We use it because it works so well, and ET cannot even chew pellets--but he can eat--and utilize--this feed. I am sure that I could supplement with beet pulp...etc, but the truth is that we are often trying to fit the "feed the pasture pets" chore into very busy days, and even one more step (like soak the beet pulp) can seem mind boggling. The Equine Senior Delight feed is simple and it works. I have thought about fiddling around with Et's diet...etc, but at this point I'm inclined to think that if he can't make it on free choice senior delight, which has kept every other old horse fat and shiny, then that's one way of him saying "its time". But I'm still waiting for that clear signal that says "now".Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-11736096282404163362011-09-21T12:08:51.206-07:002011-09-21T12:08:51.206-07:00I've been blessed to have clear signals from a...I've been blessed to have clear signals from all the animals I've put down. It sounds like that's what you're waiting for in ET's case as well, and you haven't seen it yet. As long as you're OK with continuing to wait for it, and you're attuned enough to him to recognize it (and it certainly seems like you are), then waiting might be the best option. As you said, he could tell you it's time at the first winter storm - or he might continue trotting around for another five years, lol!<br /><br />The feed ET is on sounds fantastic, but if he's dropping weight, have you tried feeding soaked beet pulp? I have a hard keeper too and it doesn't matter how much hay or alfalfa I stuff into him, he still looks ribby. However, one scoop of beet pulp daily keeps him fat and shiny. The shreds are quite small and don't need to be chewed, it's reasonably priced, and one bag lasts me forever. Anyway, just a thought if you haven't already tried it.jenjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01737679332792618499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-69021354151676060772011-09-21T11:20:51.381-07:002011-09-21T11:20:51.381-07:00Gayle--A friend of mine had the vet out to put her...Gayle--A friend of mine had the vet out to put her horse down, oh, maybe five times. And each time the horse looked so much better on the day the vet came that she just couldn't do it. I know someone else who did the same thing with her dog. Maybe I wait a little too long--I'll never be sure--but I haven't done that. So far, when I feel they've given me some kind of signal, I go forward, and it all seems smooth. Though still terribly sad. Death is very final. I guess that's part of my hesitation to deal it out too readily.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-1708727651258698742011-09-21T11:15:55.007-07:002011-09-21T11:15:55.007-07:00redhorse and Linda--I try to think what I would wa...redhorse and Linda--I try to think what I would want, and I have to say that I'd want to suffer just a bit--to help me be ready to let my life go and welcome death. I have observed my animals, horses included, be ready to let go, and I have seen this in people, too. Its my impression that some degree of pain/discomfort is needed first. Who wants to let go of this life when we feel OK? So I guess that's where I'm coming from on that. But I surely don't want my animals to suffer in any deep, pointless way. I've tried to be very careful on where I draw the line--not taking their life before they are ready to let go/not putting them through too much-- and I have certainly had to make the choice for about twenty or so critters in the course of my life. Its never easy. But I did feel that the ones I chose to euthanise gave me a pretty clear signal they were ready, and that gave me some peace of mind. Its a huge struggle for me that I'm not getting that signal from ET--when logic indicates I should put him down.<br /><br />Alison--I bury my animals, including horses, here, too. And it does give me some comfort to know that their bones lie on our property.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-25973548469559418822011-09-21T11:08:18.623-07:002011-09-21T11:08:18.623-07:00There's no easy answer, except the one you can...There's no easy answer, except the one you can live with. My old dog, who had to be carried outside to go to the bathroom, TROTTED to the car on the day I took him to be put down. Gah. I've had more than one friend watch their animal decline and the day after they make The Decision, the animal rallies and has the Best Day Ever. One thought is that they're not ready to go. Another is that they feel better because they are ready - they've been telling us for months they weren't well. <br /><br />Who knows? Do you want him to have one last, great day, or do you want him to tell you he's done, to please put him out of his misery? As much as I try to listen to my animals, at the end of the day it's about how I "interpret" what they're saying.Gayle Carlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15783449240138097315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-65034837924553030412011-09-21T10:37:15.453-07:002011-09-21T10:37:15.453-07:00Tough decision, Laura, and you weighed the pros an...Tough decision, Laura, and you weighed the pros and cons in your blog and they are coming out equal. One day, and it may be soon with ET, the pros will suddenly outweigh the cons. Since humans outlive their animals (except parrots!) we all have to make these decisions with our pets. It is a HARD one no matter the animal--we have more cats, dogs and horses buried on our property than I can count (don't tell since it's not legal!)--but as others commented, it is our job to make that decision in honor of the love/service they have given us (and others in ET's case). Good luck.Alisonhttp://www.alisonhartbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-63896454377441595142011-09-21T10:26:31.736-07:002011-09-21T10:26:31.736-07:00Laura - You are such a kind soul to worry so over ...Laura - You are such a kind soul to worry so over your old refugees. But I understand how hard it is to make that decision - what right do we have to play God? And yet I think it is part of our responsibility to not let them suffer, which like you said might happen at the first bad winter storm.<br /><br />We put an old horse down last summer, and it was tough when the vet came and the sun shone bright and the grass was green and the old horse seemed to be enjoying the day. But as he dropped peacefully down into the grass as he ate out of a grain pan from my hand, we all said it would be a blessing to go that easily - to lie down in green pastures - which is exactly what he did.<br /><br />Good luck with your decision, Laura.Linda Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17948970237555890150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-17991595548995867392011-09-21T10:03:36.370-07:002011-09-21T10:03:36.370-07:00My old vet (now retired) always gave a sedative be...My old vet (now retired) always gave a sedative before the euth shot. It seemed very peaceful. My old TB, who always required extra drugs, needed two shots to stop his heart, but he was out of it, and in no pain.<br /><br />As for "when" to do it, I'd say one hour before they begin suffering. It's a tough call. I always kick myself that I didn't do it sooner and avoid pain and suffering.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-1468169397298108532011-09-21T08:51:09.830-07:002011-09-21T08:51:09.830-07:00That's the conclusion I'm currently going ...That's the conclusion I'm currently going with, Kate. Waiting until ET tells me he's unhappy. Which may be the first winter storm. I am actually hoping for a clear sign from him, a loss of appetite, anything. But so far I'm not getting one, and I'm trying to pay attention. ET eats with gusto, moves around, gets up and down easily, is sound. We feed him all he'll clean up. And this particular feed has done a stellar job for dozens of older horses that I know of. Its just a tough one. I would be relieved if he did what your Noble did and showed a marked decline. But so far its the slow downhill slide--and he still has a perky attitude.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-39919105115392002392011-09-21T08:09:09.567-07:002011-09-21T08:09:09.567-07:00I've done a number of euths, and I don't t...I've done a number of euths, and I don't think the horses know or suffer - they're heavily tranquilized first (if the vet is doing a good job) and drop very quickly - sometimes the legs twitch/thrash for a second or two but that's involuntary movements. There's no pain and it's very fast.<br /><br />I faced the same problem with Noble, who lived until 30, but he went downhill very fast and the decision was clear, at least to me - he was unhappy when he'd been happy before. I'm a believer, if other factors don't enter in, in letting the horse make the decision - but it's important to pay attention to subtle signs and some people do wait far too long. It sounds to me like your guy is feeling pretty lively - have you had his thyroid tested? there's an easy supplement to help that if it's out of whack which can cause weight loss. I'm in no position to advise you - it's your decision and whatever your decision is it'll be fine - can you just put him down when he becomes less comfortable and tells you it's time, rather than doing it right away?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-5507974889964773162011-09-21T07:47:45.059-07:002011-09-21T07:47:45.059-07:00Oh kel, that's a tough one. I have been presen...Oh kel, that's a tough one. I have been present for the"euthing" of maybe half a dozen horses, three of which were mine. None of mine struggled--the one who was standing (we tranquilized him first) fell in an instant, so though he did not suffer from the kill shot (I don't think) the effect was not one of "quiet and peaceful". The two who were lying down also died very quickly, with no struggle. I was relieved that they were done with their suffering--one had advanced cancer, one severe, inoperable colic, one had a stroke. One minute there, the next gone. I think the effects of euthanasia can vary widely. It hasn't happened to me, but I have heard of horses (and dogs and cats) reacting to the shot with fairly violent struggle, and taking awhile to die. This would break my heart. The times I've heard of this, it has been my impression that the animal wasn't "ready" to go. All the critters I've put down gave me clear signals they were ready to go. Which is why its being so hard for me with ET.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-43891719088682057262011-09-21T07:27:14.600-07:002011-09-21T07:27:14.600-07:00Been wrestling with the same issues here in the no...Been wrestling with the same issues here in the north too. I don't have an end all answer. What I have been thinking about lately is... Do horses know what is happening when they are receiving the drug? And since I have never had a euth done with drugs, is it quiet and peaceful? I think that if I felt like the horse just was "laid to rest" and it was quiet and peaceful it would make the choice a little easier.horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.com