tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post4951814486502379685..comments2024-03-26T05:15:39.663-07:00Comments on Equestrian Ink: The Fate of a HorseJami Davenporthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-87105945306186968002008-06-28T16:00:00.000-07:002008-06-28T16:00:00.000-07:00If you want input from horse folks I think that y...If you want input from horse folks I think that you should put the point of your blog post in the front and make it easy for them to discern what you'd like from them. <BR/><BR/>If there is one thing I've learned over the years is that horse people absolutely <B>love</B> sharing their opinions... Often you get a ration of opinions whether you wanted it or not.<BR/><BR/>If you just wish to muse over a topic or share an event, then getting to the point quickly isn't as important. <BR/><BR/>The reason I wrote what I did was because I was feeling like Mental_Midget who said: <I>Was there a question, there? Sorry it was unreadable. Better luck next time.</I>anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-69269845141650365172008-06-28T07:53:00.000-07:002008-06-28T07:53:00.000-07:00anniebannanie--I think you'll my books are a bit f...anniebannanie--I think you'll my books are a bit faster paced than this blog. (And yes, writing fiction is very different to this sort of piece.) But let me know what you think. After almost twenty years as a published author I can stand a little crtiticism. And yes, the fugly blog definitely provides a lot of material that could be used in one of my mysteries. Do you think my next blog (Friday 27th) has a more direct approach? (I do try to learn from my mistakes.)Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-44127671124457785652008-06-27T23:11:00.000-07:002008-06-27T23:11:00.000-07:00Laura, I appreciate that you wanted us to read the...Laura, I appreciate that you wanted us to read the whole of your post. I figured that out. However, writing fiction and requesting opinions from busy people are two different things. <BR/><BR/>If I were to pick up on of your books, I would expect less of an exposition more fictional narrative and characters, etc. In this instance you are asking people for impressions on a topic it seems to me that it would be most important to get the question up front and elaborate later. Those who have the time, will read the balance if they feel the need. <BR/><BR/>I don't know about the rest of the people who regularly read FHotD, but I'm very busy. I have a full time job as a horticulturist, I ride two horses a day (at least), I train earth dogs, am an artist, have a husband, have two children and a partridge in a pear tree (no, I don't sleep much). IMNSHO, your attempt to "entice" may have turned off quite a few folks who would have responded. <BR/><BR/>If you are doing research for a book, great. Although I've never read your books (but I have been "enticed" to do so now), I think you've got all the makings of a great novel from FHotD. Neurotic horse hoarders, in-fighting rescuers, sexual abuse (animal and human), gun toting hillbilly horse breeders. Geez, it could be an impressive tome.<BR/><BR/>Good luck.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-63696279541448358732008-06-27T19:03:00.000-07:002008-06-27T19:03:00.000-07:00Mugwump, I love the horse in your picture. Gorgeou...Mugwump, <BR/><BR/>I love the horse in your picture. Gorgeous!!!Jami Davenporthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-74712755360188708402008-06-27T07:37:00.000-07:002008-06-27T07:37:00.000-07:00anniebannanie--True, I did not pose the question u...anniebannanie--True, I did not pose the question up front but rather at the end of the post. This was to "entice" the reader to read the whole piece--a purposeful device. But I can appreciate that from your point of view it was difficult to "tease" the question out of my prose. Fair enough. You made some good points. Sounds like you, just like me, have ended up keeping some horses out of fear of where they might end up if you sold them.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-3434878728314261572008-06-27T07:20:00.000-07:002008-06-27T07:20:00.000-07:00anniebannanie-I like the way you think. My favorit...anniebannanie-I like the way you think. My favorite horse goes by the name anniebannanie....:)mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-49708816649588138852008-06-26T21:41:00.000-07:002008-06-26T21:41:00.000-07:00austraincurls said:In the age I grew up in, and wh...austraincurls said:<I>In the age I grew up in, and when horses where still treated like gods, and how they were at home previously handled with respect and care, the horse was holy in and of use in many respects, he was given a permanent home, he was trained to perform certain tasks, and treated as a family member...why?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know where you came from but in the arid west of the US, I was told by old buckaroos, men that were moving horses around in the early 1900's, that horses were less important than your saddle. You could always buy a new horse but if you lost your saddle, you were doomed as a "good hand." Only a precious few horses were treated "as a family member." The rest, like the automobile of today, were easily sold, traded and euthanized when they were no longer useful. <BR/><BR/>To answer your question Laura (Which was difficult to tease out of your prose, BTW. What ever happened to the thesis statement anyway? Get your point or question out up front and make it easier for us), is that it depends on your viewpoint. Obviously we all have differing opinions as to what our obligations are to our horses. <BR/><BR/>Often it seems as though Fugly's point of view is that all horses <B>deserve</B> some consideration based on what they have done for their human benefactors. Since Fugly has definite opinions, she classifies people based on those opinions. <BR/><BR/>So, if you don't have issues with what happens to a horse if it gets sold down the line, sell it. If you care about a horse, then you may want to be more careful about where they go. This are not, however any guarantees when you sell your horse no matter what you do or who you sell it to.<BR/><BR/>However, IMNSHO, there are horses that, for whatever reason (temperament, personality, previous handling, abuse, etc), are not going to fit into any human prescribed program. These are horses that are dangerous and should not be sold to an unsuspecting buyer nor should they be bred no matter their breeding or conformation. <BR/><BR/>As with most issues, often the extreme opinion is the one that gets noticed. But it often takes drastic opinions to get an issue noticed. Such as the equine slaughter ban; the simple solution to horse slaughter was thought to remove the slaughter houses. The plight of the faithful saddle horse brought out the soft hearted en masse and the measure was passed. To date, the ban on slaughter has not reduced horse suffering, but eventually the lack of easy disposal of horses will reduce the amount of badly bred and poorly trained horses. The pendulum must swing. <BR/><BR/>I've bought and sold many horses but as I age, I have gotten soft hearted and have three that will die on the property. They aren't all that special, but I have experienced enough to know how hard it is out there for good horses, much less the poorly bred, badly conformed hard-luck cases I've acquired. It would hurt too much to think of them scared, hurt and lonely on the road to Canada or Mexico. I'll shoot them myself first.anniebananniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176242022055891984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-62159520748423099502008-06-26T20:38:00.000-07:002008-06-26T20:38:00.000-07:00I can't go to bed without adding just one more tho...I can't go to bed without adding just one more thought. I personally can no longer give up my horses. <BR/>I do work on a small ranch that buys, breeds, and sells. If they didn't I wouldn't have a job.<BR/>Which is to give each horse the best chance for a good life through solid, sensible training. <BR/>The horses they breed are good looking, good minded animals, the kind of horses we need more of. I could never critise them, or have any opinion except a good one.<BR/>So there's a conundrum for us all...mugwumphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00319060800328355056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-40194499293957003762008-06-26T20:10:00.000-07:002008-06-26T20:10:00.000-07:00Laura, When I put in a right of refusal, it is at ...Laura, <BR/>When I put in a right of refusal, it is at the same price I sold the horse for. I usually sell a little under market. I do not advertise, I only sell by word of mouth. I sell very few horses. I have purchased back two horses I've sold. <BR/><BR/>Both came back lame. Both were later useable, but not at the level they had been as they were also seniors when I got them back. Both had behavior issues. The mare couldn't be tied to a trailer anymore, set back in panic. The gelding came home with a bolting issue. Both got better, but never as good as they had left. <BR/><BR/>So, as you can see, I'm just making a fortune in horses. Sell a sound well trained, well mannered horse. Buy them back for the same amount of money, lame, old and with issues 4 or 5 years later. <BR/><BR/>Yup Rocket Surgeon here.horspoorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12838010404746375255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-18065230062617205562008-06-26T17:40:00.000-07:002008-06-26T17:40:00.000-07:00Purple prose?" what the hell is that?Gods...well, ...Purple prose?" what the hell is that?<BR/><BR/>Gods...well, I never really meant "GODS" in the sense of Apollo or Zeus, but here in Austria, if your horse died because you didn't take care of him properly, then you were up ass creek because you had no means of getting anywhere, nor working your fields...and heaven forbid you had to beg your greedy, jealous neighbors for the use of _their_ horse.<BR/><BR/>Btw, ranch-land America is my home. I'm a late comer to Austria.austriancurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015633298952678666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-25724206738330692622008-06-26T17:35:00.000-07:002008-06-26T17:35:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.austriancurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015633298952678666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-52395169825161791132008-06-26T17:32:00.000-07:002008-06-26T17:32:00.000-07:00Laura--I'm very excited to read your books. Actual...Laura--I'm very excited to read your books. Actually, I'm hoping some of them are on tape, since I hardly have time actually to read any more. <BR/><BR/>Your question posed haunts me. I have a QH gelding that I really should sell. I stupidly got talked into buying him when he was a yearling, because I was supposed to "flip him" within a few months. Of course, knowing myself, I should have known that would never happen. But then the horse had a bad gelding experience and almost died and--well, a person gets attached to a horse during those near-death experiences. I still intended to sell him and was offered a very respectable $3500 for him when he was unbroke at 2 years of age. Just couldn't get myself to do it--and they seemed like extremely nice people who wanted him for a trail horse. <BR/><BR/>I have 5 horses and have to pay board on them, so I tried selling him again recently--had a few bites--and again can't bring myself to do it. I'm fairly sure I can find the first good home and let him go, but then what? I'm scared to death what happens to him after that. He is a sweetheart of a horse and, while he's not what I would have picked for myself for a riding horse (he's very much halter bred), he's nice and cute and is getting to be quite well-trained. He's 4 years old now. Thankfully, his current trainer said she'd lease him so I don't have to make the decision to sell him... yet. Granted, I have land and will hopefully be out there within the next year, so if I can hold on that long, I suppose I'll keep him. And learn to ride him. Why? Because I can't stand throwing him out to a world who may not care for him. I know there are many, many horse owners who would give him a wonderful home... but what if he makes his way to one who doesn't? I just don't think I can live with the possibility. And yet--I have no problem with people training and selling perfectly useable horses. I think perhaps I'm just not cut out for it myself and may as well just recognize it and keep the dang horse and be done with it. :) <BR/><BR/>And I'll be the first to admit that I have sold 2 horses, both of whom wanted me dead (I don't think it was a personal vendetta, but I would have ended up dead or seriously maimed had I kept either one of them). I did not have the expertise or sheer guts to deal with either horse. I would bet that the first one I sold ended up at slaughter. I hear the second one is still a happy pasture ornament somewhere in the Northwest. I don't regret selling either one. <BR/><BR/>austriancurls--I'd love to think that all horses throughout history were treated with love and respect until recently, but I have to doubt that quite strongly. <BR/><BR/>I read Black Beauty...tierrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17968044653640815533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-49090604463709931662008-06-26T17:24:00.000-07:002008-06-26T17:24:00.000-07:00Austriancurls, We certainly don't live in the land...Austriancurls, We certainly don't live in the land of Oz and there are always a lot of grey areas between the responsible, ethical horse owners and the asshats--something I'd be the first to say and feel might be pointed out more often on Fugly. I was more or less summing up her take on it as expressed in the blog. In the case of your comment, I guess I should have said that I got your point--we are very disconnected from our true selves and nature in this modern world, and connecting to horses is a good antidote to that. But I don't agree with much of what you said; horses were not treated like gods in previous generations--not around here--I can't say about Europe. But I'm from a ranch family and I know a lot about how horses have been treated when they were the means of transportation and the "tractors" and believe me, it wasn't any better in an overall sense than the way they're treated now. Also, as a professional writer, I just had to have a little snipe at the "purple prose." Sorry.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-87813223635860936392008-06-26T17:14:00.000-07:002008-06-26T17:14:00.000-07:00laura_cum:When horse owning, horse owners, and eve...laura_cum:<BR/><BR/>When horse owning, horse owners, and everything to do with horses would be so simple as you have summed it up - responsible horse ownership and asshats, then we would live in the land of Oz. Or not?austriancurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015633298952678666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-71295373369508050112008-06-26T16:18:00.000-07:002008-06-26T16:18:00.000-07:00Well, drat, Austriancurls, I thought the point of ...Well, drat, Austriancurls, I thought the point of fugly was about being ethical, responsible horse owners rather than "asshats"...hmmm isn't that what you're telling me in a great many words and a in a rather convoluted way? I think I said it a little cleaner. Just my opinion.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-41044995899069571662008-06-26T16:06:00.000-07:002008-06-26T16:06:00.000-07:00Hi Laura,I think most of your comments are appropr...Hi Laura,<BR/><BR/>I think most of your comments are appropriate, however...the point of the FUGLY blog is something you missed.<BR/><BR/>Although you covered most all the angles, and also made the point that it is a bit of a diatribe, the real problem is that it had to go so far before something was or even will be done.<BR/><BR/>In the age I grew up in, and when horses where still treated like gods, and how they were at home previously handled with respect and care, the horse was holy in and of use in many respects, he was given a permanent home, he was trained to perform certain tasks, and treated as a family member...why?<BR/><BR/>Well...the reason is very clear to see. The horse, in earlier times, and in times that were still closely bound to essential historical events, was like the automobile today. Theý were the only transportation, they were a means of sport. They were the only means of getting from A to B with or without style, poor or rich.<BR/><BR/>With the event of gasoline obsession, and a generation removed from those who still had connections with what the horse provided, you can imagine that people are a little out of touch.<BR/><BR/>And, that is what FUGLY's diabtribe is all about, reconnecting sense, reconnecting value, reconnecting the bond between the person and the horse, in a very senseless and thoroughly and totally uneducated, disonnected, and completely distracted to the point of hurting themselves, and demolated world.austriancurlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03015633298952678666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-75233066875024005932008-06-26T15:55:00.000-07:002008-06-26T15:55:00.000-07:00In my 30 years of horse ownership, I've only ever ...In my 30 years of horse ownership, I've only ever sold one, and years later, attempted to find her and buy her back, but never could.<BR/>I've also had, during those 30 years, dreams of owning a particular breed of horse, a particular type of horse, a particularly trained horse, or some other fancy. I no longer think of a horse I might have, but focus entirely on the horse that I already have. He has issues, and much of his life has been spent more as a pasture ornament than a riding horse. I would dearly love to have a horse I can ride as much as I want, when I want, where I want, but I cannot afford a second horse, and will not sell or otherwise dispose of my current horse to get one. I get to wish others fun and joy on their trips to clinics, trail rides and shows, but I don't get to go. For myself, it is enough that I may look deeply into my horse's soft, brown eyes and know that he is well cared for, loved and appreciated for what he is. I will never sell him.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your stories. I enjoy reading them. In fact, I have long been considering a similar vein of writing on an entirely different central theme that has nothing to do with horses, but is something I am almost as passionate about. Perhaps I will.Gitonyerhorsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05517771321613273662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-55903882873458280202008-06-26T15:33:00.000-07:002008-06-26T15:33:00.000-07:00Mental-Midget--Now I know what you're quoting. One...Mental-Midget--Now I know what you're quoting. One of the ads that fugly made fun of. Well, that wasn't me. I'm not selling any horses. My blog was about the ethics of selling a horse. But for your info, a horse is used in a feedlot to push cattle through crowding alleys, separate cattle, and usually has to do a lot of opening and closing of gates. Sometimes some corral roping. I've done this work before--in my long lost youth.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-31367071642645366362008-06-26T15:27:00.000-07:002008-06-26T15:27:00.000-07:00Oh, and Mental-Midget, you seem to be referring to...Oh, and Mental-Midget, you seem to be referring to a quote that is not part of my blog--I'm not sure where it came from. I do know how a horse is used in a feedlot, but it isn't relevant to this discussion.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-24561989752440964832008-06-26T15:25:00.000-07:002008-06-26T15:25:00.000-07:00spottedmonster--and everybody else who has talked ...spottedmonster--and everybody else who has talked about a right-of-first refusal clause in the contract--that's a good point. The only problem is that sometimes the horse gets offered back to you at a time and a price that just doesn't work. This happened to me--I horse I sold when he was seven got offered back to me ten yesars later when he was seventeen. The people no longer wanted him (lots of reasons, not the horse's fault) and guess what? They wanted the same $3500 back that they'd paid for him. Of course, he wasn't worth that at that point, but they certainly couldn't hear that. Not to mention I was going through a divorce and could barely support the horses I had at that time. I told them to call me if they failed to place the horse at that price and I'd see what I could do. They never called me back. That horse still torments me. I wonder if he ended up at the killers--no way were those people able to sell him for $3500 to a good home. And I broke and trained him and owned him for two years. I didn't sell him because he was my favorite horse, lets face it, but I sure didn't want him to end up at the killers. It just drives me nuts.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-21802230305024645822008-06-26T14:58:00.000-07:002008-06-26T14:58:00.000-07:00Pardon my ignorance, but how is a horse used in a ...Pardon my ignorance, but how is a horse used in a "feedlot"?<BR/><BR/>Sue's dam is an excellent all-around horse, her dam has been used in the feedlot, in barrels, poles, western pleasure, halter, showmanship, horsemanship, reining, flags, goat tying ...Mental_Midgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11518990590273819339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-11057815177255603102008-06-26T14:56:00.000-07:002008-06-26T14:56:00.000-07:00Well.....I've been a volunteer at a local horse re...Well.....<BR/><BR/>I've been a volunteer at a local horse rescue place for the past 15 years. I've seen a lot, and heard a lot of varying opinions.<BR/><BR/>Now, here's my opinion. <BR/><BR/>First, I don't believe it is wrong to sell a horse, especially if the horse is well-trained and properly socialized, and the new owners are checked out. After all, there has to be some kind of "movement" or the industry will collapse. <BR/><BR/>What seems to scare people the most is that big unknown factor - will my horse wind up at a slaughter auction someday? <BR/><BR/>And sadly, I think that particular problem is going to be with us for a long, long, long time.<BR/><BR/>The slaughter industry in this country is a symptom of a larger problem, an over-population of horses. Cut down on the amount of "un-wanted" horses, and the slaughter industry could eventually disappear from the U.S.<BR/><BR/>HOWEVER...it's not just about too many horses. Slaughter exists because there is a demand for horse meat, and quite frankly, I can't see that ever changing. I seriously doubt the entire world will someday become vegetarian.<BR/><BR/>Since it is unlikely the demand for horse meat will stop, that leaves caring horse owners very little choice, other than to do what we can to control how many animals go to slaughter (including our own animals). <BR/><BR/>It goes right back to what Fugly has said from Day One, "Stop breeding fugly horses!" Until we can get a handle on the U.S. horse population, slaughter will continue to exist in this country. There's just nowhere to put all those horses, there aren't enough people who want them, and there are too many people willing to use those horses to make a quick buck.<BR/><BR/>In the interim, we should do anything and everything possible to ensure humane treatment of those poor animals who do get shipped off for slaughter. It's a nasty business, but it'll never go away unless the demand for horse meat ends. We at least need to try to get the entire process cleaned up as much as possible to reduce the suffering of the animals.<BR/><BR/>Parts of Europe and Great Britain seem to have the right idea, with traveling butchers, or the option of bringing a horse to an abattoir to be humanely put down on site.<BR/><BR/>Anyhow, that's my take on the issue.<BR/><BR/>As for my own horse, he's old, retired, and I can't really ride him anymore, but he'll be with me until he passes on.Fugly Owner in VAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13442946314934092515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-46142797483850870382008-06-26T14:54:00.000-07:002008-06-26T14:54:00.000-07:00Was there a question, there? Sorry it was unreada...Was there a question, there? Sorry it was unreadable. Better luck next time.Mental_Midgethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11518990590273819339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-63153023690992860732008-06-26T14:22:00.000-07:002008-06-26T14:22:00.000-07:00Laura, Well, I was going to breed one of my mares ...Laura, <BR/>Well, I was going to breed one of my mares this season...didn't. I'm at five horses now. Afraid to sell any of them. I know I'll eat Top Ramen to make sure they eat, I really don't know what someone else is willing to do. <BR/><BR/>I have nice horses. Not world champions, or grand prix horses...but nice, well mannered, good looking, well bred horses. Pretty easy to place horses. <BR/><BR/>The horses I've sold I've put a buy back clause on the bill of sale. I wont sell a lame horse. I wont sell a horse with issues. <BR/><BR/>I was offered a pretty decent amount for my mare a few years ago...she's a fruitloop, a talented fruitloop, but a fruitloop. I almost sold her. Then I started thinking. It would probably go well until they gave her time off, or got mad at her. Then they would think her issues, fear issues were naughtiness and she'd be in trouble. And it would escalate from there. So..screw it. I kept my fruitloop. A friend is running her this season. They get along well.horspoorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12838010404746375255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-91767118685209249152008-06-26T14:05:00.000-07:002008-06-26T14:05:00.000-07:00Laura,I have read most of your books and really en...Laura,<BR/><BR/>I have read most of your books and really enjoyed them! I also am in the process of selling a horse that wasn't a good match for my daughter. It was a tough decision and I will do my best to ensure that he goes to the "right" home and will put a first right of refusal into his sales contract. It does worry me that his life could take a turn for the worse at some point but I hope to keep track of him and do what I can to keep that from happening.spottedmonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17823787340336079380noreply@blogger.com