tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post7101222914858389181..comments2024-03-26T05:15:39.663-07:00Comments on Equestrian Ink: A Wreck in the MakingJami Davenporthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-33522869445972168362013-08-22T07:34:30.561-07:002013-08-22T07:34:30.561-07:00Thank you RiderWriter--Sounds like you went to a g...Thank you RiderWriter--Sounds like you went to a good riding school.<br /><br />whp--Yes, that is just what I mean about supervising teenagers. My cousins and I were left in charge of my uncle's horses often when we were teenagers and though we tried--I tried very hard--to do a good job and be responsible, things happened that would never have happened had an experienced adult kept an eye on things.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-190236452306818552013-08-21T15:01:53.554-07:002013-08-21T15:01:53.554-07:00A new boarder has appeared at the barn where I kee...A new boarder has appeared at the barn where I keep my mare. She moved away from another yard because it was unsafe, chiefly because the manager would leave inexperienced teenage girls "in charge" when she wanted to go away. The final straw came when a teenager parked a quad bike (yes, they drove those unsupervised too) on a slope, didn't engage the handbrake properly, and it rolled away colliding with a horse that was tied and couldn't move away in time. The horse was injured, fortunately not badly. The same teenagers would lead horses to and from paddocks using the quad bike because they were too lazy to walk. Yes, there's a lot of danger around for unsupervised children. whitehorsepilgrimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17336201990231834504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-52202841983809156112013-08-21T12:49:38.360-07:002013-08-21T12:49:38.360-07:00Laura, I am in awe of your post because you made S...Laura, I am in awe of your post because you made SO many excellent points, in your usual lucid fashion. Wish to heck it could be required reading for every parent whose kid begs for riding lessons/a pony!! <br /><br />I have never trained a horse so there are very, very few situations where I would feel comfortable telling someone to knock off whatever they're doing, just in case I had no idea of what I was seeing... but you ARE a trainer, and thank goodness you were there for that boy and his poor, confused, scraped-up horse! Damn and blast this "trainer" person for getting the kid off on such a wrong foot. I hope you can corner Kid again and make some suggestions 'cuz it sounds like he REALLY needs the help.<br /><br />@horsegenes - What a sad tale. Sometimes I wish I'd never started reading anything "horsey" on the internet, because now I know full well all the lousy things that happen to equines. Although starving in a pasture doesn't sound like much fun for the poor beast, either. <br /><br />I was put on a tiny pony when I was two, with my mom alongside (I have photographic proof of this). I started H/J lessons at age five, the youngest student they'd ever allowed at the barn. I know I fell over any number of times but only remember two of the falls from my childhood, as both were from runaways/dramatic circumstances (amazingly, wasn't hurt). For many years when I cantered in lessons, it was line up, one at a time, go to the end of the line, which was a pretty safe way to do it I think. We had excellent school horses/ponies. The trainers were good to great. My parents chose a fine facility, thank God!RiderWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05679157278313699794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-76471717394561164022013-08-20T07:34:28.964-07:002013-08-20T07:34:28.964-07:00Kel--OMG. That is just terrible. And the absolute ...Kel--OMG. That is just terrible. And the absolute pinnacle of the kind of idiotic behavior--on the part of kid's parents and "trainer" --that I wrote about in the post. I know I sound like I am bashing trainers, but you and I both know that good trainers are very helpful and a necessity at times. Still, the number of "trainers" in the world, like my buddy at the roping arena and the one you describe, who are merely feeding their own egos at the expense of ignorant people and less-than-broke horses...well, it just boggles my mind. And, of course, these people will not listen to you, as the kid in my story and his dad will not listen to me. Cause we don't claim to be "trainers." Very frustrating.<br /><br />Alison--Yeah, I don't trail ride with anybody other than my son and our friend Wally, and I keep my horses at home. Like you, I don't want to deal with it. But I do ride at the arena--for the reasons I described in the post and comments. For my son's sake. And he has learned some good things. But yeah...I feel the same way you do.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-55662865961839581062013-08-20T04:47:14.106-07:002013-08-20T04:47:14.106-07:00OMG this post made my teeth ache and my soul hurt,...OMG this post made my teeth ache and my soul hurt, but it was a great read.<br /><br />I guess it's why I- like many of us on this blog - avoid riding with other people and competing. I don't keep my horses with other horses either.<br /><br />Makes me a huge avoider. Alisonhttp://www.alisonhartbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-80339871309973148762013-08-19T12:45:38.971-07:002013-08-19T12:45:38.971-07:00Great post. And very timely. I am going to copy a...Great post. And very timely. I am going to copy and paste and give it to a family that I had the following experince with this weekend. <br /><br />As you know we have a huge fire burning and I took a old appy mare in for a family that are in a vunerable location. I had no idea what the deal was with the girl and her horse. <br /><br />Her mother works with my daughter. They don't have a horse trailer and wanted to get the horse out incase they had to evacuate. That in itself makes my head hurt. And the fact they had dry grass and brush within 10 feet of the house... can't fix stupid. <br /><br />Seems this little girl wanted a horse. Parents couldn't afford a horse. So the momma sees this horse out in a pasture on her way to work everyday. The horse is getting skinny. So momma stops and askes if she can have it. The owners are an elderly couple and give her the horse. This woman has no knowledge of horses at all. Takes this mare home and gives it to her 12 year old daughter to ride. <br />Does your head hurt yet? <br /><br />In steps trainer. I know this guy and he has lamed more horses than I care to count. Only let one of his students ride a horse to death once that I know of. Great guy, NOT. He is not interested in a horses or riders welfare one little iota. I go out to pick up this horse at 1am and the young girl rides the mare up to us. In shorts, no shoes and with only a halter. We are in a emergency fire situation! The fire is so close I could have hit is with a rock. I asked if the horse would load in the trailer and no one really knew if she would or not. I just took a step back to see what would happen. It felt like waiting for a train wreck. The dad has a handful of hay. Literally - a hand full. He stands in the middle of the trailer and tries to coax her in, but the dumb a** is standing in her way. I am not a patient person with humans at 1am. I asked him to let me try - Thank goodness this mare is a saint - she went in the trailer quietly. When I got her out at home she about stepped on me - She has no ground manners at all. She pays no attention to a tug on the halter, won't lead beside you, is constantly in your space... just doesn't know anything. She is made all kinds of wrong, skinny, wormy, bad feet, no ass at all, scars everywhere. But they have a "trainer". The trainer said everything was good. He came out and checked her horse over and said it was a good fit. The girl just needs some lessons on "his" lesson horses and things are going to be great! She is a natural! <br /><br />The list of what is wrong here is so long I don't even know where to begin. <br /><br />In my mind - I have gone over several possible conversations with these people but in their eyes I am not a "trainer". I am not a professional. And their guy is.horsegeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08614136458074519322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-36061651497196486102013-08-19T07:41:40.391-07:002013-08-19T07:41:40.391-07:00FD--It sounds like you and I are on the exact same...FD--It sounds like you and I are on the exact same page. I totally agree with everything you said in your comment. And yes, I do think those some of those old cowboys meant to let the kid "crash and burn." And I wasn't about to see the boy get hurt if I could stop it--nor do I think it would have helped anything if he had pulled that horse over. Even if no one was hurt, both boy and horse would have been the worse for such a thing.<br /><br />I did, one evening at a gathering, talk to the boy (when the "trainer" was out of earshot), about how stressful the box is for the rope horse, and ways to make it easier for the horse, rather than MORE stressful. I'm not sure how much of it sunk in, but I tried.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-54031990334708994912013-08-19T07:36:55.215-07:002013-08-19T07:36:55.215-07:00Bionic Cowgirl--I would have done the exact same t...Bionic Cowgirl--I would have done the exact same thing as you. When I trail ride I go with one or two well known companions--or by myself. I have NO interest in large group rides where I don't know the people well. That would be absolute torture for me. (Its one of the reasons I have zero interest in endurance.)<br /><br /> However, working cattle with friends who have been working cattle all their lives is a unique experience. You can't gather a herd by yourself--its a team effort. There is something special about being out there with the other cowboys, all doing a job. And this is why I have brought my son to the roping arena for these years of his growing up time. I want him to know that sense of camaraderie with other horsemen who understand how to get a job done.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-63733083804710965022013-08-19T03:09:41.997-07:002013-08-19T03:09:41.997-07:00Can't disagree with any of this. Like you I mo...Can't disagree with any of this. Like you I mostly keep my mouth shut, but I draw a bright line: where I think a child or sometimes an adult is in imminent danger I will intervene, even if it makes me no friends. Otherwise, I try to bring it up in casual conversation, you know the sort of thing, "I had a friend who had a horse that did x, they fixed it by Y". People are sometimes (often) more comfortable with options than advice. <br /><br />And I agree so much on the small children - as an instructor kids under 5 only had pony rides and I always required 2 people per kid or no ride. 5 years and up the same till I was reasonably comfortable that they weren't going to fall off just because the pony sneezed. Which I've had happen, while the pony was halted to boot.<br /><br />With a teenager, it can be iffy - so often no matter what you say, they won't hear you. Is it possible that the watching oldtimers thought that a wreck was what was needed to make the boy listen? I've seen it play out like that before - "Oh let him fall off a time or too, knock some sense into him." <br />Personally, I find that counter productive - once they've crashed and burned humility sn't what manifests, but fear/ego driven bravado, which pretty much always makes things worse. Because as you said, horse or person, nobody listens better when wound up than when they're calm.<br />I might in this situation, offer some more general life advice - Eg, how I go about deciding who to listen to. FDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01485030894416936129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-33606490758325432882013-08-18T20:29:13.155-07:002013-08-18T20:29:13.155-07:00All of this is so true. We have great trail horse...All of this is so true. We have great trail horses, all Mustangs, who tend to bond with their "person" so we don't let many others on them. However, mine have been used as 'school horses' for a clinic, yet we AVOID the group gatherings like the plague. Last fall, on our vacation, we horse-camped across KS and MO, staying at equestrian campgrounds. We had one night left at a particularly nice place. That morning Bill and I were sitting in a sunny spot with our morning coffee and tea, looking at maps and deciding which trails to ride that day, when a long line of horse rigs appeared on the highway where we could see them. I made some comment about where all those horses could be going, when we realized they were headed into our camp area. We just looked at each other and simultaneously said, "pack up!" Within 20 minutes, we had repacked our gear, cleared the campsite, loaded the horses and pulled out amidst a hollering bunch of 'horsemen' unloading and setting up portable pens all over the place. Not trying to be unfriendly, but we just didn't see a lot of good coming from that type of commotion! Happily found a quiet spot many hours down the road. I hope they all had a good time; I know we did. Thanks for your insights.<br />Bionic CowgirlAllenspark Lodgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06390004633731055728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-65451119227212362832013-08-18T10:48:26.484-07:002013-08-18T10:48:26.484-07:00Marissa Rose--I agree with you 100%. In that situa...Marissa Rose--I agree with you 100%. In that situation the girl should have been on the pony rope, with an experienced horseman ponying her horse. A child needs to be able to competently control his/her horse AND understand the etiquette involved when riding in a busy arena before they are turned loose like that. My son was at least seven or eight and could really control Henry and also understood how to stay out of the way and ride politely before I would let him warm up with the group. Its a skill that needs to be taken seriously--the risk of a horse kicking at a kid's horse that is in the wrong place and injuring the kid is a real problem--and the cause of one horseback fatality in my part of the world.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-31781857460283030812013-08-18T10:43:06.005-07:002013-08-18T10:43:06.005-07:00Thanks, Dom. I don't mean to bash all horse tr...Thanks, Dom. I don't mean to bash all horse trainers, either. There are good ones and bad ones. It can be very hard for a beginner to sort out which is which. I know you know.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-54509609797513657472013-08-18T10:38:55.943-07:002013-08-18T10:38:55.943-07:00Oh my gosh. I went to a sorting last week, and the...Oh my gosh. I went to a sorting last week, and there was a little girl on a horse. The little girl was probably 4 at the oldest. She was adorable and the horse was a saint. However, while the horse didn't do anything more than walk when the girl kicked, and seemed like the safest horse ever, it wasn't safe for anyone else. There was a warm up area and the girls parents let her walk around, they were both on horseback and didn't keep her close at all. Multiple times I was warming up and this little girl ended up STRAIGHT in my path and I had to swerve to try and avoid her. And other riders were having this problem too! That wasn't safe for that little girl or any of the other riders because while her horse was being safe, she didn't have any control over where she was...and the parents didn't make any attempt to keep her corralled! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14850398102722859692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-88027486462085813682013-08-18T10:38:43.694-07:002013-08-18T10:38:43.694-07:00Cesca--So sorry you hurt your ankle. I have to say...Cesca--So sorry you hurt your ankle. I have to say that I am not a fan of NH in general, but whether someone is an NH practitioner or a traditional horseman, I agree with you that anyone with ANY experience with horses should have known better than to treat your friend that way. It amazes me how many experienced horsemen do incredibly insensitive things that put other horsemen at risk. The "trainer" at our own arena last year turned on a big agricultural sprinkler (to water the arena) without warning, right when my son and I were standing next to it--drenching both of us and our horses--not to mention the huge whoosh that it made when it went off. Both horses spooked a little, but they are solid and didn't do much. I would, not, however, have blamed them if they had tried to run off. It was quite alarming. I was furious and that time I did bawl the "trainer" out, feeling that he had put my son's life at risk. Such a stupid, thoughtless thing to do. You're so right about it being a fine line when to speak up and when to be quiet.<br /><br />Bird--Yeah, gymkhanas are pretty much notorious for that. But as far as I can tell, you see it in every group horse event, to some degree. Reading endurance, dressage, jumping blogs...etc, I hear about the same crap--just like I have seen in cowhorse and roping. Like you, I mostly avoid group events, but I did want my son to know the fun of working cattle on horseback with a group of friends. There is good and bad about it--I guess everything is like that.Laura Crumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15200878892304748308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-19796737457668435642013-08-18T10:31:51.079-07:002013-08-18T10:31:51.079-07:00A post full of great advice. The situation with th...A post full of great advice. The situation with the teenager and the hot, confused horse scares me and I wasn't even there. I'm glad you shouted before anyone got hurt. That really is a wreck waiting to happen. Domhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00139769676714813261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-20828662856951875912013-08-18T10:15:35.396-07:002013-08-18T10:15:35.396-07:00Yep, what a dilemma. I avoid as many "group&q...Yep, what a dilemma. I avoid as many "group" horse events as possible, aside from endurance rides, and I'll admit this kind of stuff is one of the reasons. Well let me clarify, the ridiculous rodeo/overridden/underridden/overhorsed, "trainers" etc you see in group, "trail," and event settings around here is just...wow. The gymkhana I didn't get to take my filly to this weekend is a prime example of pure asshattery and poor riding, parenting, and training. It's full of excitement though and good for desensitizing Arabs! <br /><br />Good for you speaking up for that boy. Hopefully he and his horse can muddle through without damaging each other. I mostly bite my tongue in those situations too but have definitely yelled a few desperate suggestions in my time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01344662726517478751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-47738463033201509442013-08-18T10:13:48.083-07:002013-08-18T10:13:48.083-07:00Hi Laura, long time no comment (or so it seems to ...Hi Laura, long time no comment (or so it seems to me!) I've been away a lot, then got hurt (torn ligament in my ankle, very boring). I agree with everything you mentioned, it's so frustrating, and maddening to watch people being given bad advice by people claiming to be Joe Pros. I've often had to bite my tongue to avoid saying stuff that would start a big stink, but then I feel like such a chicken for not saying what I think. A few weeks ago my friend was riding her new mare (the one we brought back from the south of France) in the outdoor arena. The mare is a sweetheart, but she's only five and with little training. There was another person riding a horse, someone who claims to be an expert on natural horsemanship and horse psychology who kept on getting in her way. That wasn't polite, but my friend is a good enough rider and could deal with it. What made my jaw drop was when this person left the arena at the far end (where nobody ever leaves, it just leads into open fields where you're not supposed to ride) and took off at full gallop! Of course my friend's horse got all excited! Luckily she's a sweet horse and soon calmed down, but I thought it if had been me a few years ago on Qrac, or another less experienced rider, it could have been a disaster! I mean, what the heck?! If this person hadn't been a so-called expert in NH, or clueless about how horses react, but they've been around horses most of their life! Is it cluelesness? Lack of respect? What? I'd NEVER behave like that, in fact when anyone is riding a green horse, or a horse new to the facilities I'd always ask them if it was ok for me to leave them alone in the arena before leaving with my horse. it's just common sense. Or maybe not! <br /><br />I could write pages of other examples of idiotic behaviour, or bad advice, or cruelty, but I guess we know it's out there, and we just have to use our best judgment and know when to intervene and step up, and when it's ok (or in our own best interests) to let it go. Good post (again, my dear!!)<br /><br />xx cescaFrancesca Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16312915602595615476noreply@blogger.com