tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post4588928750046620664..comments2024-03-26T05:15:39.663-07:00Comments on Equestrian Ink: What Do We Owe Them?Jami Davenporthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05259390150273030284noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-50690064273499783782010-01-23T09:09:35.340-08:002010-01-23T09:09:35.340-08:00stillearning--I totally agree that there are no ab...stillearning--I totally agree that there are no absolutes and we all just need to do the best we can. I'm not presuming (as I said in the post) to tell others what to do with their older horses. But, that said, lets say (hypothetically) that one has an older horse that has issues that were created by choices made by the owner. The owner sells this horse to what she considers to be a good home and loses track of it, or feels unable to take it back. Whether because of these same issues (or economic woes) the new owner needs to get rid of the horse (this happens a lot, as I've experienced when I rehomed some horses). The horse is sold to another home--not so perfect this time. The issues arise, the horse is sold again and eventually ends up at the saleyard and on a truck to Mexico. This is certainly not what the original owner intended--but it happens a bunch. It may have happened to some horses that I once owned and thought I loved. It really bothers me. Thus my post.<br /><br />Yes, horse trainers can't keep them all or get too attached to them, or they'd be out of business. But when its our own horse, who has worked his butt off for us and (sometimes) has problems as a result, what do we owe this horse? My suggestion would be that we owe this horse (at the very least) keeping track of it and making sure it doesn't end up in a bad place, even if we have to make some personal sacrifices to do so. Its very true that others can possibly deal with a horse's issues as well as we can, but are they as motivated to make sure this horse has a good life and a dignified death as we might be? Sometimes they can be, sure. But it might be pretty easy for someone to say, as I did of Jackson, "I didn't make your problems and I'm tired of dealing with them. I'm passing you on." Or, worst case scenario, the horse's problems get someone (either new owner or horse) badly hurt. (This also happens a lot with a new partnership--I've seen it many times and I'm sure you have too.) So these are the reasons I think that we all need to consider long and hard when we rehome a horse that is older and whose issues are the result of our training and choices.Laura Crumhttp://www.lauracrum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-46146973529762745062010-01-23T06:37:01.338-08:002010-01-23T06:37:01.338-08:00My remark about planning applies more to the one-a...My remark about planning applies more to the one-at-a-time owner than to you, Laura. A trainer cannot take personal responsibility for every horse they work with--or they won't be a trainer very long. <br /><br />You have done an amazing job in retiring so many horses, more than might be sensible. That's your call.<br /><br />It's good that you raised the question here, to address the casual discarding of an older horse. Another question to raise might be "Am I the only one who can care for this horse?" (like on mugwump's recent discussion). Sometimes the "issues" our horse has that "only we can handle" are in fact things that can be handled just as well or better in a different situation. I do think that many horses prefer having a job over simply being pets. I sometimes wonder if my old guy would have been just as happy teaching someone else to ride for a few more years, and that it's my own ego saying that I needed to retire him when I did.<br /><br />A friend's horse has been sold this week to what looks like a forever home, with a new owner who has the time, skill and enthusiasm to give him the attention he needs. My friend is sad that she couldn't keep him and fulfill the potential she saw in him (life interfered...) but is happy that he's found such a good new owner.<br /><br />Guess there are no absolutes. You do the best you can.stilllearninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15917159268881119376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-10536018537298653172010-01-21T16:43:52.823-08:002010-01-21T16:43:52.823-08:00Thanks for the input, stillearning. I'm glad y...Thanks for the input, stillearning. I'm glad your horse is doing well. I find that the older I get the more I can see that there is a "right" niche for all sorts of horses. And I agree that we can't retire them all (well, most of us can't afford to retire all the horses we've ever owned) and that the trick is to plan ahead.<br /><br />I'll give an example. I was partners on a very talented colt who had what we came to call an ADD personality. He could do it all but he frequently blew up and spazzed out when he was under pressure. We tried many riders but he wasn't going to be a good team roping horse for anybody, despite all his talent. He couldn't take the pressure. At the time I didn't need a trail horse, but this horse was/is gentle with kids and good on the trail. I gave him to an appropriate home and after this woman had kept him, ridden him and enjoyed him for two years, I aked her to make the committment to be his forever home. She's an honorable person and she agreed. I still check on the horse, but I trust this gal to keep her word. Thus I am hoping not to get landed with one more old horse (that I can't afford) when its this horse's turn to be retired. So, yeah, I'm trying to do a little planning here.Laura Crumhttp://www.lauracrum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-69845076634933650392010-01-21T14:26:29.499-08:002010-01-21T14:26:29.499-08:00Laura, you're right that my plan involved mov...Laura, you're right that my plan involved moving my horses to a new home while they were still useful--my goal was always to sell them before they were 10 years old. And I tried not to get totally attached (yeah, right) because I knew they'd have to be sold.<br /><br />So, back to your question...what do we owe them? I guess I agree with you that we owe them a safe retirement and a dignified death. I actually was going to argue that it wasn't always possible, yada yada, but then realized just how far out on that financial limb we've gone to retire my guy in the way he deserves. I couldn't do it any other way.<br /><br />Plan ahead. Make the commitment, either financially or by finding another good home for them. If you can't manage that--lease, rent, borrow...but don't own. And yes, in these hard times sometimes planning isn't enough and you have to come up with another solution. No one will ever say starve your family to feed your horse. But, yes, give up that vacation, or that new car, or that dinner out...you owe it to your horse.<br />-----------------------------<br /><br />Laura, my horse is doing well. Our resistance issue is not totally gone, but very much improved. I still hit pockets of resistance, but we're managing to work thru them quickly and progress. Still don't know if he'll be a good dressage horse because of the total obedience required, but I feel sure there's a niche out there for him if/when I get tired of exploring how far I can take him. Thanks for asking.stilllearninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15917159268881119376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-84698629487967785982010-01-21T07:51:19.654-08:002010-01-21T07:51:19.654-08:00Nikker--I loved your comment. The Top Ramen part m...Nikker--I loved your comment. The Top Ramen part made me grin. (I don't know if I'm willing to go quite that far.) I completely agree with your points.<br /><br />And stilllearning--thanks for your tale. It makes sense to me. I always appreciate your insights. You once wondered if your younger horse had a "resistant" personality--how is that issue working out? Your solution of buying young horses cheap, training them and selling them in their prime to good homes is a great one...except when you find one you need to keep (that seems to happen to all of us eventually). <br /><br />I think that rehoming a horse has a lot to do with individual circumstances. An owner who really can't afford the horse(s) she has will obviously have to find a home for one or more of them. The question I am studying on right now has to do with the ethics of rehoming a horse that we trained since it was young (perhaps creating issues that will always be with the horse) and have owned for a long time (creating a situation where the horse feels that he has a familiar, secure home and life). This horse has done much good work for us; we have valued him highly. Now, for whatever reason, he is no longer useful to us in achieving our goals as a horseman. Is it right to sell him? Especially if this horse is getting past his useful life as a riding horse. Unless we remain in control of this horse's fate, there is a very good chance he might end up at the killer's some day. More than that, isn't it our obligation to take care of this horse, as he has taken care of us? Shouldn't we be willing to make some sacrifices to do right by our old horses? Thus my question: what do we owe them?Laura Crumhttp://www.lauracrum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-8304153299002286942010-01-21T03:57:58.360-08:002010-01-21T03:57:58.360-08:00I've always been on a very tight budget. As a...I've always been on a very tight budget. As a kid I earned my rides working at the local riding school. I was lucky enough to buy my own horse at age 30. Boarding out was my only option since we were raising a family in suburbia, and as the kids grew and costs rose (especially in the college years) I juggled income (more part-time work) and time to feed my horse habit. <br /><br />I have always been an avid rider; my one horse needed to be a willing partner in my quest to keep progressing. I have also wanted the best for each and every horse I owned. I knew that I could not be the "forever home" for each horse, or I'd have to back off on the riding part. My solution was to find the best prospects I could at the racetrack (OTTBs are cheap), spend however many years it took to reschool it in whatever discipline best suited it (usually hunters) and do my best to place it in that forever home. I've been lucky in finding some great horses, and some great buyers. I felt satisfied that I gave them all the best chance I could.<br /><br />Then...I found MY horse. You know, the one that I had to keep forever for no good reason except that I did. The one who got me through some tough times. The one I don't trust anyone else to take care of (he has some issues)...MY horse. But he was getting older, and really wasn't willing or able to keep up with my riding goals (now in dressage).<br /><br />So...we found a tiny "farmette" with a tiny old house and barn that we could afford and moved my old guy home 7 years ago. Keeping him at home cut my costs in half, so I can manage to have a young horse, too. This is not the perfect place to keep horses, but we've managed to make it safe and comfortable for them with lots of hard work. (The house is still a work-in-progress.) My old guy is happy and healthy. My husband is a saint.<br /><br />I feel very lucky to have found this solution. I can't guarantee the same for my young horse; I'll probably try and find another "forever home" for him eventually.<br /><br />That's my tale, for what it's worth.stilllearninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15917159268881119376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-59424213028367389662010-01-20T20:26:14.842-08:002010-01-20T20:26:14.842-08:00I just love your posts!
I have read a couple pos...I just love your posts! <br />I have read a couple posts about this subject in the last week or so, all thoughtful and with good points. I think that we have become a bit of a throw away society on many levels...and just getting rid of an older horse because it doesn't fit our purposes anymore is just wrong. These animals didn't choose us, we chose them. They certainly didn't toss a saddle on their own backs and ask us to hop on. They do for the most part what is asked of them day in and day out (there are always exceptions to every rule of course)without fail. We do owe them a good life until their time comes. It can be argued back and forth about their level of "caring" for us, but we are part of their herd and important to them in our place in that herd...or so I believe. How we give them a good life in their golden years is different in each situation, but I really have a hard time with the thought of rehoming my "gray hairs"... Because like you said, its giving away control...the control to make sure they do live out their lives happy and comfortable. If mine get too expensive I'll eat mac and cheese, and then if it gets even worse...Top Romean is REALLY cheap! ( :Nikkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07121188185593072355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-77033317158718774102010-01-20T14:57:28.198-08:002010-01-20T14:57:28.198-08:00Linda and Shanster, I agree with you that its not ...Linda and Shanster, I agree with you that its not a simple issue. Especially for those who board. What if you can only afford the upkeep on one horse and your old horse is no longer ridable and you really want to ride? I can imagine how difficult it would be. Do you euthanize the old horse, even if he could have many happy retired years ahead of him? Try to find him a good home as a pasture pet (very hard to do) and be willing to take him back if this new home doesn't work out (but if you have acquired another horse to ride you won't be able to afford to take him back)? Its a tough one. I tried to present the many sides of it in my post, but I am interested to hear from others what they think about this situation.Laura Crumhttp://www.lauracrum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-63989985620665005092010-01-20T14:49:55.968-08:002010-01-20T14:49:55.968-08:00Nice post Laura - yes, there are many options out ...Nice post Laura - yes, there are many options out there. Re-homing, selling, retiring them.<br /><br />In my opinion, if they've been with you for years and years and they are beginning to go south with age related issues, you do sorta owe them one. I just can't fathom turning my oldster to the sale barn. I'd euth him first!<br /><br />I'm lucky enough to keep him at home along with 2 others for a little micro herd on 5 acres of pasture. I think that if something were to happen to me financially I'd be faced with harder decisions.<br /><br />Maybe I'd find a nice cheap pasture someone would let me pay to keep him there - maybe not. I'm pretty sure a change would be awfully hard on him at this point. We all adapt to changes but none of us likes it much... animals included I think. <br /><br />I hope I continue to stay blessed enough to provide for him until his end.<br /><br />I've sold horses in the past without really any thought to where they would ultimately end up. I was younger then and not in a position to afford more than one at a time. <br /><br />I'd have a harder time doing that now... but I'm also in a position that I don't have to. When times get hard, you do have to make harder decisions.Shansterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04397551985965117012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-38550610499577317772010-01-20T12:11:25.006-08:002010-01-20T12:11:25.006-08:00Laura - This is a thoughtful post, and I am dealin...Laura - This is a thoughtful post, and I am dealing with this same issue. I have one old codger of a horse (still rideable) with arthritis and one older donkey recovering from laminitis. I have every intention of giving them a good home until they are no longer enjoying life, at which time I will humanely put them down.<br /><br />But the hard reality of the situation is that it's difficult for many people to make that commitment, especially in these lean economic times. For those of us lucky enough to have land and pasture, the upkeep on a horse or two is not so bad. But many people board their horses, and this can make decisions like this difficult.<br /><br />It's good to have this discussion, though. Horses are not like dogs and cats, which we usually (sadly) outlive. Horses have a long life span, and few of us have the means to keep one forever.<br /><br />It's a difficult situation, certainly, but one that horse owners need to think about. I like your idea about re-homing a horse with a contract drawn up where you can take the horse back if the situation is not right.<br /><br />Certainly food for thought. And I do agree. Horses give us so much. We owe them respect,and the reward of a good life.Linda Bensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17948970237555890150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-29419313070540646132010-01-20T11:33:18.433-08:002010-01-20T11:33:18.433-08:00Thanks, Kate and Susan--those were very inspiring ...Thanks, Kate and Susan--those were very inspiring comments. You're probably right, Susan, about turning Plumber out. And I'll probably get there in the end. It took me a year after I retired my good horse, Gunner, to be willing to turn him out. I guess I'm just overprotective. <br /><br />As for cattle, I so agree. We raise our own beef now. The cattle live turned out in our pasture until they are five or six years old and are shot humanely by the ranch killer as they stand there grazing. They are not penned up or hauled anywhere. We eat grass fed beef from our own land--we know what's in our meat. Its delicious....and we give the steers a good life. Its win, win. I think horses could also be humanely slaughtered in just such a way and their meat used for a good purpose, instead of the abysmal situation that we have now.<br /><br />However, my old horses won't be eaten...I'm hoping/planning to give them all the reirement they deserve.Laura Crumhttp://www.lauracrum.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-40234451664676295582010-01-20T11:09:30.916-08:002010-01-20T11:09:30.916-08:00Every day I am grateful to have the acreage to let...Every day I am grateful to have the acreage to let our Wild Bunch run free. We currently have three or four horses that would have been canners if we hadn't gotten them. A couple of mustangs we rescued went to good homes, but other than that we have kept our "useless" hay burners. They owe us nothing. Watching them run or catching sight of them up on a ridge brings us more joy than almost anything. Yea, we worry about money, but the thought of them coming to a bad end is worse. I am not opposed to horses being used for food, it's the way they're treated before they're killed that breaks my heart. I feel the same about the cattle industry. <br /><br />If it was me, I'd try turning my old guy out with the rest. The horses will probably work it all out on their own. If he's unhappy, bring him home.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04986249712144982103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5037107797013641705.post-64672038824156593982010-01-20T10:52:04.992-08:002010-01-20T10:52:04.992-08:00Excellent post - I think senior horses have offere...Excellent post - I think senior horses have offered and continue to offer a huge amount to us and certainly have earned the right to a good retirement. I've sold horses in the past, but not any more. All my horses are "forever horses" - two I have placed at a very fine equine retirement home (there are many bad ones out there as well) - I was having trouble taking care of 5 - and I have one retired horse here with me, as well as my two riding horses. Is it inconvenient - yes, sometimes. Is in expensive - absolutely. Is it the thing that I feel is right for me to do - without a doubt. Horses aren't machinery or equipment, to be used up and discarded, although a lot of parts of the horse industry are set up to run that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com